How to Use Your "Inner Game" to Achieve Success in Business With Torrin Minutillo

You're probably familiar with the saying, "life is a journey, not a destination." Well, the same holds true for your finances.

Achieving financial freedom is a process, and it's going to take time and effort. But it's worth it.

On this episode of Chasing Financial Freedom Podcast, we talk with Torrin Minutillo about the inner game of success. Torrin is a business mentor who has been through ups and downs in his own entrepreneurial journey, and he has learned what it takes to achieve lasting success.

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Transcript

Torrin on Chasing Financial Freedom

[00:00:00] Ryan: Hey guys, Ryan DeMent from Chasing Financial Freedom Podcast. I hope you guys are having a great day this week on the podcast. We have Torrin Minutillo, and he is a entrepreneur that has 32 years of experience, and he has some transformative coaching that he does. And I'd like to talk to him about that ton.

[00:00:20] Ryan: Welcome to the podcast. 

[00:00:22] Torrin: Thanks. Ryan's pleasure to be here and looking forward to 

[00:00:24] Ryan: it. Thank you. First of all, before we get into anywhere, I know it's early time Wednesday, so thank you for getting on the show and coming up and getting up that early for you for 

[00:00:33] Torrin: the show. No problem. Yeah. I'm in the Southwest corner of Australia.

[00:00:37] Torrin: Probably couldn't be further away from your time zone, but I dunno, you got me going started for the day, so fantastic. Thanks for that. 

[00:00:43] Ryan: That's good. So could you tell the listeners a little bit about your background, and then we'll get into your story after that.

[00:00:50] Torrin: Sure. Look my, as you just mentioned, 32 years in business now just about 33 or a couple of months, time. Continuous. So I started my journey when I was 24. Just had some [00:01:00] retail businesses. My fir the way I like to describe my business journey is probably two parts. One was pre GFC or global financial crisis.

[00:01:07] Torrin: So I started in 1989. So I'd had about 18, 19. Business development, if you like growth and chopping and changing quite a lot of businesses, mainly in the retail space. I ended up in real estate in early two thousands and ended up setting up my own business, which was the one I could really get my teeth into mainly industrial commercial property, which was something that I was interested in.

[00:01:28] Torrin: But then in 2008 after growing quite a lot, financially, a lot of measures of success, they were all. But then I ran into some problems through that period and lost a lot of my wealth. If you like, a lot of, I always like to explain, I lost a lot of zeros. And and it's a I hate to think sometimes how many zeros, but it was quite a few.

[00:01:45] Torrin: But yeah it put a rock, rock me on my heels. I was in my early forties at the stage and young family. Teenage daughters in private schools and all that sort of stuff, mortgages. And I went through a sort of a period of two to three years where things really didn't work out for me.

[00:01:59] Torrin: And it got to a pretty, [00:02:00] pretty bad stage. But I decided that I wanted to stay an entrepreneur and didn't wanna go and work for anybody else. And I managed to hold onto my real estate business through that period. So my story is really one of, maybe reaching some Heights coming back down and now on, on the back on the path up.

[00:02:12] Torrin: And my second. Path up the mountain, if you like, has been completely different in that. I did that through discovering more about myself and, the person that I am, why I I first figured out why did I get into that trouble in the first time? And I realized that it wasn't global financial crisis.

[00:02:26] Torrin: It was really a mindset thing that I wasn't really prepared or resilient enough. Become a strong, foundational business owner. What I discovered about myself and so I set on a path of really understanding how to get better at that. Reading books, listening, doing lots of coaching courses, just really, and what I learned was that the human behavior at the core of it was what was driving my new success.

[00:02:47] Torrin: And as I learned more about that, I just became a voracious learner on the human condition and, the psychology of people. And so that, that led me up this pathway. So my business now, which I still have the real estate. Is, I don't know many times bigger than what it [00:03:00] was before and we're doing really well.

[00:03:01] Torrin: I've got a good business, but the last four years I've now developed to help other people through their business journey. I'm of my late fifties. Now I'm turning 58 this year. So I've decided that the remaining time that I wanna work is really to help other business owners and help them understand that psychological journey, which I believe is what we're all on.

[00:03:18] Torrin: And how to get the best out of themselves to achieve what it is they're trying to achieve. And so I've in the last four years, I've been coaching other business owners on how to do that. Yeah, that's a sort of a 33 32 to 33 year snapshot of where I'm at and I'm really enjoying where I'm at now and getting some great results with people.

[00:03:32] Torrin: And it's very fulfilling. 

[00:03:34] Ryan: So before we get into the coaching I know that's our main point. Yep. Can we talk a little bit about the real estate and just how you got into it and then how it's evolved even through the last downturn in 2008, 2009 cause I know we talked a little bit about that and then we'll get into the coaching 

[00:03:48] Torrin: piece.

[00:03:49] Torrin: Sure. Yeah, for me I was as I said, the first half of my business life, I was probably bouncing around from, starting up businesses, selling them, starting another one, buying something in. So I just was, I was probably, [00:04:00] I'm reflection agitated about really landed into a place that I could get my teeth into.

[00:04:04] Torrin: And then I got introduced. I was developing property as a side issue, like I was, buying real estate doing little developments with, one of my brothers and and so I was interested in it. And then one of the guys that we came across, who said, why don't you try get into real estate and sell it yourself?

[00:04:19] Torrin: So I did, I decided to do that while I had a two other businesses going, I decided to get my real estate registration and do that. And then I, once I got into that, I really loved. And understood that this was a pathway for me. And and over a period of three years that dissolved the other businesses.

[00:04:33] Torrin: And I went headlong into real estate. And then as being an entrepreneur within a space of a couple years, I had set up my own company, got my own license and then went on that pathway. And, in Australia early two-thousands, from 2003 through 2006, the market was booming.

[00:04:48] Torrin: It was just a natural progression I was doing well. And I just, yeah I think I had a natural a natural ability for it, if you like. Like everything, you gotta sharpen your skills and do what you gotta do to make it all work. And then, so 2008 has [00:05:00] said the global financial crisis really hurt well economy around right around the world in Australia was no different.

[00:05:06] Torrin: So real. Became, on the nose and was very difficult to sell properly. My, my challenge through that period on reflection was that I just tried to hang onto everything I had rather than actually liquidate and take some losses and move forward. And that's where I got into trouble is that I just was in denial.

[00:05:20] Torrin: I. Bad at all. But as far as a real estate thing, now, the work that we do, what our company does is we work around commercial, industrial development. So we buy land and syndicate that separate it, build units 

[00:05:34] Ryan: SM. So are you only. Are you only in the commercial space 

[00:05:38] Torrin: predominantly?

[00:05:39] Torrin: Yeah. I'd say that, 80 to 90% of our business and our portfolio, we manage also, a significant portfolio of properties for other owners who we've sold property to. And we've got a management team that looks after that. Yeah but I would say that in probably 90% of it, we do the, get the occasional residential one only from referrals and people that we know or clients that we have.

[00:05:58] Torrin: But it's not a [00:06:00] focus. 

[00:06:02] Ryan: The and then you said the other magic word that a lot of people talk about syndication, so that could hold be a whole nother topic. So we can go past that one. so that's just a whole nother topic you're 

[00:06:12] Torrin: The interesting thing where that, and this is probably worth just touching on this for anybody.

[00:06:16] Torrin: Listen to this is it really came out of the necessity that after the global financial crisis banks were very difficult in borrowing money, certainly in wa in Australia. Yes. And so the idea was if we use people's money instead of BI, bypassing the banks to go and find opportunities and pull people's resources.

[00:06:35] Torrin: And I here, we have what we call superannuation. So a lot of people have their private own superannuation funds where they put their own money in there. So they're not institutional. Investors, they invest their own money. So they've got the ability to put them into, property syndication.

[00:06:48] Torrin: And there's a whole, you. As a whole machinations are going and making that all happen of course and pull it all together and making, returning a profit. But but so it was really born outta the fact that a lot of people were frustrating that they couldn't go and borrow [00:07:00] money from banks that even if they found opportunities, so this was another way of doing it.

[00:07:03] Torrin: And so we got onto that pretty quickly and that's what really helped us grow the business in that. Early years after the global financial crisis. But yeah, that's another topic, Ryan. I could talk to you all day about that. oh yeah, we 

[00:07:14] Ryan: can. So let's hop into your next phase of your entrepreneurial journey coaching.

[00:07:20] Ryan: Yep. So how did you get into it and what got you? So I'm in the space too, but we're a little different I know how I got in was out of necessity. And this is just me being me because we had a business that was catering to people that are looking to buy homes in affordable housing space here in the United States.

[00:07:38] Ryan: And they had no idea how to handle their finances. So we're in financial coaching. I know your journey's a lot different and I just wanna compare apples and oranges. How did you get. 

[00:07:48] Torrin: A couple of different reasons. One as I said is that I really started to study myself from the on, I was really fascinated.

[00:07:54] Torrin: I'm still am, like I'm a voracious learner around the human behavior. Anything I can read or learn or do a course on [00:08:00] about understanding the human condition and how it impacts. And I think what I. What I came to understand early on my, journey up the mountain the second time, if you like, was that, how we behave, how we show up who we are.

[00:08:11] Torrin: Yeah. What I call my in the game, how that has a huge impact on the results that you get externally. And so go back to my real estate career for a little while, is that because I was working in that condu commercial, industrial space, I was meeting a lot of business owners at the diff different levels on the spectrum of, quite average business owners to very multimillion dollar.

[00:08:28] Torrin: Property owners who had successful businesses. And of course we were working in that space. So I got to meet a lot and being very curious, and I was having this study going on in the background of myself and human behavior. I was trying to figure out what was the difference between the ones that were really successful versus the ones that weren't or perceived not to be?

[00:08:46] Torrin: Cuz it's always hard to tell from the outside looking in. Of course Trying to also manage our new, our business growing. We've got some coaching. So I got some personal coaching joined, quite a lot of networking groups. And really after about, five or six years on that trail [00:09:00] just a mentor that I had at the time said, you should be teaching other people how to do this because you've got a good knack for it.

[00:09:05] Torrin: You understand human behavior, very, a. Better than what most people that I've come across and just cause it's a fascination for me, it's a hobby almost now. And the idea was then connected to, is that not necessarily be on a strategic tactical level, which is where a lot of consultants and business coaches are at and, valuable as they are, but really more about on the mindset and understanding what is it that drives us to make the decisions that we do to get the results we get it.

[00:09:27] Torrin: And I had a very much a strong test case of my own that. I went through some, what I call a valley and had to find my way out of it. I needed help around me to do that. So it's very important that for business owners out there who may be listening to this is that don't try and do it on your own.

[00:09:41] Torrin: As an entrepreneur, one of the things about the human condition is that we believe the personality type of entrepreneur is one that believes they can do it on their. , that's why they get into being entrepreneur in the first 

[00:09:51] Ryan: time. It's exactly clear. That's why you get into it, cuz you wanna do it on your own and show everyone you can.

[00:09:56] Torrin: Yeah. And that problem is that you then run into [00:10:00] problems, as we do, cuz there's no straight line to success in business. And what you're trying to do is smooth out that, that line. So it's not too much of a zigzag. It's reasonably flat. And going into it, in the right direction.

[00:10:10] Torrin: And I think what it is that you need assistance around it certainly. And I just have spoke to a client, a new potential client yesterday about this, and it's just like having that objectivity from the outside, looking in to what you are doing, there's nothing really broken, but how do you maximize the returns that you're trying to achieve so that you can actually get a better, more achievement, which is where you, what you want for the time and effort that you're putting in.

[00:10:30] Torrin: So how I got in the end, I've made a conscious decision to. To use an Australian phrase, have a crack at it. And knowing and, and to be fair I did have a safety net in that I had a real estate company, so I didn't have to live and die on the money that I was making outta coaching.

[00:10:41] Torrin: So I had a good opportunity for a year or so to test and measure, and I decided to not pick up anybody else's IP and run with it. I decided to develop my own IP based on my experience and what I was learning, and really cuz there wasn't really much out there that I could find that tied, that. In the game experience with how does this impact our [00:11:00] outer game, just that conversation.

[00:11:01] Torrin: And yeah, I just said about, so I've got now bank of models and formats and different things in the way I teach and how I show people how I get them to evolve quite quickly. And it's not for everybody. So it's based on where you are on your journey. Cuz if you're a startup business in the first one to three years, this is probably not gonna, I'm not gonna be your guy because you're still trying to survive and just get to a place.

[00:11:20] Torrin: But this is more for business owners who have established something quite. Been around 5, 10, 15 years have reached some glass ceiling business, say again. Yeah. Yeah. They've got a stable business. What I would say a good business, but how do you get it to a great business?

[00:11:32] Torrin: Because correct. Often what happens is business owners, that may have a team of 5, 10, 15 people, but the business owns them. They're tied to it 70, 80 hours a week. They're probably thinking about it when they're not in the business for another 20 or 30. So potentially they're a hundred hours a week out of the 1 68 that we have.

[00:11:48] Torrin: I think it is that we're occupied. We're thinking about growing and developing this business. And so the work that I do is really try and help people, step back a bit, actually in the first instance is actually have a good look at where they're at and how to [00:12:00] structure it differently and using their internal operating system to manage themselves.

[00:12:05] Torrin: And I call this personal leadership cuz until you can start. Leading yourself. You certainly can't lead a team. And I think that's what happens. People try to lead a team of people outwardly without really understanding themselves at a deeper level. And potentially that's what I did going back, pre 2008.

[00:12:20] Torrin: So really, yeah it's a very much a human experience journey. And we can go into that if you want, but yeah, that, that's how I got into. Coaching and then within the space of 12 months I knew I started to get impact and people wanted to listen to what I had to say. And as said, if you're in the right place and the right times the old saying is that when the students ready, the teacher will appear.

[00:12:37] Torrin: And so this is really about, I don't go chasing people. Now, I think that, when you're agitated and when you need help you'll get to a place in your world where you go, I'm reaching brick walls. And if you've got that self-awareness, which is what this is all about, to understand and see that the people that take the step to get help are the ones that generally, improve really quickly.

[00:12:54] Torrin: And that's my experience. And, the library's full of books of people who've done that. And, and got great stories to show [00:13:00] for it. And so yeah, so that's how I got into coaching and yeah, really loving, 

[00:13:05] Ryan: It's amazing. How if you step back and you give that person that opportunity.

[00:13:09] Ryan: Cause that's what we do for our coaching too, is we, I can tell you within five minutes, if someone reaches out, if they're gonna be, they're gonna be willing to change and make that effort to take the coaching on. And I always have a saying, I'll be here when you're ready. , it's just, it's just that simple.

[00:13:23] Ryan: Everybody doesn't wanna change. Everyone doesn't want to take on a coach. Unfortunately a coach is sometimes determined or viewed, I should say as a four letter word. I get it. I rarely wanna get into your coaching and how you look at it because there's plenty of entrepreneurs that are listening to this.

[00:13:40] Ryan: And some of them might be at a place where they're at. They have a stable business and they want to grow or scale. How does it start and what does it look like? Is it, do you look at the inner game first or the outer game? How does it start and how do you roll into the business to get them to where they need to be and then scale and grow, and then find a way to be able to pull themselves away from the business and be able to [00:14:00] manage it at a higher level.

[00:14:01] Torrin: Yeah, like it's a big question. Ryan, but I start off. No, that's cool. That's cool. It's a good, it's a good question. But as I say, there's, often I say to people, it's never just one thing. Okay. It's always a multitude of lots of things, but I'll go back to the start was like, until great saying, is that, until the pain of staying the same is not as big as the perceived.

[00:14:20] Torrin: Pain of change because we think I like that, that because it's perceived right, that we create this perceived pain of change, that if I go and get a coach, he's gonna tip me upside down. He's gonna show me that I don't know what I'm doing. And this is we're moving away. And, from understanding human condition, we're built to feel safe and move away from pain towards pleasure.

[00:14:41] Torrin: And we were probably put up with the pain that we got more than what the perceived pain of change will be. And it takes sometimes a tipping point for people. So often people get help when they're rough bottom which is probably the wrong time to do it. That's probably what I would say.

[00:14:53] Torrin: The first thing is that. Understand that if you're on a growth curve and you've got a, potentially a good business, that's evolving underneath you, but you [00:15:00] don't feel like you're in full control, cuz that's what we want. One of the human addictions is that we want control of where we're going and the moment that we don't have control, we start to get agitated.

[00:15:08] Torrin: We start to look externally of ourselves for all the answers. So this is where this is leading to. We start looking externally to the things that are impacting us. And, there's five functions that, of every business. So to answer your question, what I do is I sit down with the person at the very start after I hear their story and figure out how they got to where they got to.

[00:15:26] Torrin: So it's very much a process of understanding themselves accepting. How did you get to where you are now? Have you taken full responsibility? Do you accept where you're at? Because until you become aware and accept where you're at, you're never gonna sustain any actions you take for. Your conditioning of who you are is too strong.

[00:15:45] Torrin: That'll take you back to where it is. So you really gotta be go, okay. I accept that. This is how I got to where I got to, whether it's, good, bad or indifferent I'm accepting that I'm responsible for getting here. As much as that you wanna look externally and maybe blame other people. Certainly what I [00:16:00] did, global financial crisis.

[00:16:01] Torrin: It was a great thing to blame, but because cause, cause it was on everybody's lips all the way to it I'll blame that, that's like a, that's a good thing to blame. think we all did it. Yeah. So the five fun, to way the best, explain this difference between the outer game and the in game is that the external parts of your business are made up of five functions.

[00:16:18] Torrin: Every business on the planet have five functions in the sales and marketing operations financing money in and out your delivery of your product or service or whatever it is. And then people challenges. And that comes in many shapes and forms, whether it's internal as in your team or the customers and clients that you're trying to attract, these become people challenges.

[00:16:37] Torrin: And we generally. We generally outwardly do all that through strategies, tactics, method, methods, models, processes, systems, your vision, your goals, all these things make up. And so this is what a lot of consultants will help people piece together is how to structure your business to do this. And this is all external of who you are.

[00:16:54] Torrin: But internal, who you are you your own personal leadership? Is controlled [00:17:00] by your unconscious and your subconscious mind. That's been developing over a long period of time, which is creating your responses to what's happening externally and the actions that you take. And then, if you take a repeated action, then that becomes a behavior.

[00:17:13] Torrin: And then that starts to now form the results you get. And often this is at a unconscious or a subconscious. Level that you're not even aware of what you're doing. So you might be trying to change something externally in your sales and marketing your operations, or how you delivering your product or service, but your operating system internally hasn't changed.

[00:17:30] Torrin: So still responding and reacting how it always does. So when you actually break all this down, it's it's not landing someone on the moon, right? This is quite

[00:17:38] Torrin: It's not simple, but it's also, it doesn't have to be as hard as we make it out to be. So that's the other thing 

[00:17:43] Ryan: I gotta ask the question. I know, as an entrepreneur, I can be stubborn on things and we're, I can be pigheaded. I know that. I'm sure you've come across that many times.

[00:17:53] Ryan: How do you work with that in, in what's your best solution? Maybe because some of the listeners are entrepreneurs and we're all in the same boat. We [00:18:00] do have that ego a little bit. We don't wanna be told that we're doing something wrong or we've got this in our head that we're doing it. And someone's gonna come in and say, oh no, you gotta, here's a better mouse trap.

[00:18:09] Ryan: I guess what I'm getting at is I know when I'm wrong and I know there's times where I don't wanna admit it because it's, I think it's an ego thing, but I know I've got to and it's the only way to move forward. So how do you approach that with your clients? Because I'm sure that's happened more than once.

[00:18:25] Torrin: Yeah. Sure. Okay. So great. Brilliant question. So the question to ask, and so coaching is. believe coaching's about asking great questions, creating perspective, bringing objectivity and allowing the person to evolve within themselves to come to their own realizations. Because there's a great teaching that I learned is that you can show someone and tell 'em what to do.

[00:18:43] Torrin: But if they come to their own conclusions, that's more powerful and I'll sustain the change. So if I can help you come to your own conclusions about something. Then that's more powerful than me saying, Ryan, you shouldn't be doing this. You shouldn't, instead of going left, you should be going right.

[00:18:57] Torrin: This is not working for you. You may take that [00:19:00] on, but it's not sustainable. But if I create an environment for you to understand that this makes sense to me and I'm coming to my own conclusions about it. That's, what's the what's in behind the power that for you to sustain the change that you need to make.

[00:19:13] Torrin: So my first question would be is how is this serving you? So the most, one of the most powerful questions you're asking someone who's thinking about making a change or not ad who's agitated about where they're at is how this business is evolving or how you are evolving. How is it serving you?

[00:19:27] Torrin: Because until you answer it's not really serving me in aspects of my business world of my life. Then. Pretty much everything that gets said after that he's not gonna hear. So the first thing is to how is it serving you? So if you can articulate to me that, oh, it serves me, it doesn't always serve me.

[00:19:43] Torrin: It doesn't, it's not always a problem, but in certain circumstances it doesn't serve me well, because it leads me down a path or end up getting, agitated leads to anxiety, fear. I start blaming everybody else. All these, all these other behaviors, then we need to look into your inner game operating system.

[00:19:58] Torrin: And what is it that's [00:20:00] impacting you to feel that way? What's the emotion that gets created around it because the emotions of that are driving us are more powerful than our log logical brain I believe in. And this is what I've come to understand is that our emotions drive a lot of what we do so often the reason why you get agitated on that is there is an emotional driver underneath it.

[00:20:21] Torrin: That is triggering you to feel that. And I would say it's probably that ego jumps up because it's the ego jumps up because it's working against one of your value systems, right? So you need to figure out which is the value system that is being tested here. That your ego then jumps up and goes in and goes no, I'm not gonna do that.

[00:20:42] Torrin: And I'm gonna do this. And that leads to that agitation. So it's a reverse engineering, but the point is that the answer isn't outside of who you are in one of those tactical strategic methods or models it's within who you are and your conditioning process, your belief systems, [00:21:00] potentially assumptions that you're making previous experiences that you've had.

[00:21:02] Torrin: All these things form. You are in an operating system, your personality, is pretty much there's five big personality types and everything trickles down from there. Yep. Potentially pot, trauma is another thing that doesn't get spoken about a lot in business circles, but trauma plays a huge part.

[00:21:18] Torrin: Like for me financial trauma was a big thing coming out of the global financial crisis. Cause I had a. Over confidence going into it, thinking that, I'll never get knocked over. But I didn't, I built a V-shaped business and not a pyramid and a V-shaped business. Soon as markets get tough, it could easily fall over.

[00:21:36] Torrin: And, we can talk about that, which is different foundational things that you pull together. And so basically your foundation, which is gonna hold you up is built by your inner operating system and understanding that. And connecting it. So the work that I do from a coaching perspective is get that personal leadership to help people connect their.

[00:21:57] Torrin: In an operating system with their external outer game. And [00:22:00] when you get the two connected and you're paying attention, this is the main thing it's because it's subconscious and unconscious. A lot of the behaviors that are coming up on a day to day basis, which is driving, how you respond to things and the actions that you take.

[00:22:12] Torrin: You're not even aware of it and you're not paying attention to it because your day is too busy dealing with the next issue that's coming up or the next email that's coming in or the next, whatever, the next person knocking on your door saying, can you do this for me? So I think, going back to, if you're a business owner out there, who's got quite an established business and you may have a team of people and you are finding that you don't have enough space in your day to think which is what happens.

[00:22:34] Torrin: That's the first sign. That's the first sign that your focus is not right in your business. You should never be in a business, driving a team of people. That you don't have space to think and actually pull back and go, how, where's my vision going? What am I doing? How many, you gotta make that time.

[00:22:50] Torrin: And that's the focus problem. So going back to my model, if you like of how I show people is that once we, this doesn't happen in one hour session, of course this happens over a period of time. We're breaking [00:23:00] this down. Is that the connection point between your inner game and your outer game are three things.

[00:23:05] Torrin: This is worth people thinking about. So I've narrowed down to there's every problem and every solution to every problem has either an origin or a pathway through one of these three things, either a focus problem, it's either a connection problem, or it's a courage problem. So courage comes up a lot.

[00:23:24] Torrin: Is that's the testing point of when you need to push through something? I 

[00:23:29] Ryan: gotta ask the question about courage, why it comes up so much, is it. A fear or is it the the unknown or is it the combination of two or something else? 

[00:23:40] Torrin: Yeah. Okay. So from a human behavior perspective, safety is our primary driver.

[00:23:45] Torrin: So yes, feels safe and there's different levels of safety, psychological, emotional, financial, so on physical safety, which fortunately we don't have to worry about a target coming around the corner and attacking us in. Yeah. Yeah. But there is other physical dangers. [00:24:00] We need to be mindful of, so how our brain evolved from, 50 th 50, a hundred thousand years ago was built on that safety because it was omnipresent to survive that you could get taken out by something bigger than you at any moment.

[00:24:13] Torrin: But the point is that's the strongest part of your brain. So as good psychological coaches have told me is. The longest part of your developed brain is the most powerful part. So that's that safety first. So we tend to look at most situations in our day to day life now as a safety first attitude, which creates fear and the ate to fear is courage.

[00:24:34] Torrin: There's a threshold. So on our values when they get tested and most people don't even know what their values are, but if you're driving a business, there'll be some core values that are driving you below who you are, and it's worth doing the work to pay attention to those. The reason that you need courage is one of those values or one of those virtues that becomes the testing point of when those values get challenged.

[00:24:57] Torrin: So when you're faced with a problem in business, you've gotta make a [00:25:00] decision often. It's your values that are gonna drive that decision, whether you decide to. Take any response to whatever the stimulus has come to you via these five op functions of the business, whether it's a people problem, whether it's a product or a service problem, whether it's a finance problem, whether it's an operational problem, whether it's thousand marketing, they don't have enough customers.

[00:25:18] Torrin: So you're gonna make. A decision, which needs to have courage to push through, to actually do and follow through on what you say you want to do. But if you're not paying attention to your inner operating system and how that's impacting you, you might make that decision once or twice, but then you'll revert back to your conditioning and what your belief systems are.

[00:25:37] Torrin: And, we haven't talked about this, but identity is a huge thing. We tie identity to the results that we get external of who we. If you are the guy that's working 88 guy or girl, that's working 80 hours a week and thinking about your business for another 20. That's a hundred hours a week, approximately it's understandable that you're gonna tie your identity of who you are to the achievements that you have in that arena of [00:26:00] your life, which is potentially taking up 60, 70% of your life.

[00:26:04] Torrin: So forget your relationships, your health and wellbeing and everything else, your social aspect. All these things that you've all gone because you're consumed by this and your identity. So then what ends up happening is that your belief systems and your assumptions that you make on a day to day basis, get all wrapped around this, your emotions, go up and down with all the results.

[00:26:23] Torrin: And you can see this lifts to a agitation. What happens is you get to about 40 to 45. If you've been doing it for 15 to 20 years, and then you start to question, why am I doing this? Why where's this taking me? And so what I've understood is. Through psychological modeling and understanding is that people's life journey through the age of 40 to 50 in there, depending on what's happened to 'em in the early stage of their life, they'll either come quicker or come a bit later.

[00:26:49] Torrin: For me, it was a bit later. They get to an agitation point because you're now in the third quarter of your life based on. Statistical data that we all live between 80 and 85 years. So you're now in a third quarter and you start to thinking [00:27:00] about retirement and you've got this business, which is only new and you start to think, what do I do?

[00:27:04] Torrin: Where am I going? And you start to have those internal conversations. Now, if you're having those internal conversations, don't ignore, 'em pay attention to them because it does lead to breakdowns. That's why we have midlife crisis. Is that yes. Yeah. That's, there's no coincidence that those things come together.

[00:27:21] Torrin: So I'm talking about. From the people who decide to go into entrepreneurial, have their own business. If you add this human experience into the complexities of trying to run and drive a business, you can see that things break down. So understanding the human behavior and connecting it where it is on your business journey.

[00:27:38] Torrin: Is super helpful for people when they get this. And so my coaching and this has been a good conversation, Ryan, you've got this out of me today. But is is really focused on this area, right? So helping people through this passage of their life while trying to grow and drive a business and what ends up happening is that when you move away, so those five functions potentially what will happen is that, the leader of the business will be good at [00:28:00] sales and marketing.

[00:28:00] Torrin: So they continue to do the sales and marketing, and then they. Delegate or find other people to do the other areas of the business, or they might be good at finances, or they might be good at, delivering the product or service problem is as they grow is they continue to run the business as they were in the first stages of the business.

[00:28:16] Torrin: They don't evolve as a person or as a leader that they need to become as they, as the business grows. So it's very much what happens is. You the business outgrows, who you have become, and now it's pushing a lead ball up a ladder versus standing above on the ladder and pulling it up towards you, which is always a lot easier.

[00:28:37] Torrin: So you as an individual need to grow bigger than what the businesses become and the bigger the business get. The more people involved that creates more people challenge. And that's super important to understand how to drive people and how to get the best outta them. And there's a whole topic around self-determination theory and what makes people drive and all that type of stuff.

[00:28:57] Torrin: So it's, there's, it's not one simple thing. There's [00:29:00] a, it's not. When I get people engaged, I suggest that it takes about 90 days for people to really understand this evolve, start changing, learn more about themselves, and then they can start to see and get the air to breathe, to be able to move forward.

[00:29:15] Torrin: And, we, and we create the space for them to flourish and grow. And, the overarching thing that comes out of this type of coaching is calmness is you get calm about where you're at, where you're going, what you're achieving. What the other areas of your life financial stability often, business owners that I've got good financial revenue, but they don't necessarily make a lot of money.

[00:29:34] Torrin: Because they've got a team of people that they can't manage, that's absorbing all. All this money that they've got that's coming in the front door. So yeah, so that, that's a bit of a snapshot on the model on how I coach and what I find that are important. And so really the full stop under this is having a connection between your inner operating system and your external and the last thing I'd say about it or not the last thing, but one of the important things underlined is that this in the game operating system is already at work [00:30:00] with you.

[00:30:00] Torrin: It's, what's driving you now. You're just not paying attention to it mostly. So if it's already driving a lot of your. Actions and responses and giving you the results that you're getting. It just makes sense to me to pay attention to it. And how do you manage it better? So you can get the results that you want to get versus looking external of who you are.

[00:30:18] Torrin: And I'm not the first person on the planet to say that all the answers are within who you are. They're not external of it. We get conditioned to believe over a long period of time that they are external to us. And if we just go and, make this other million dollars or $500,000 or $10 million, that's gonna make me feel content and fulfilled in my life.

[00:30:37] Torrin: It doesn't. I know 

[00:30:37] Ryan: I'm with you. That's amazing what you're doing and it's so in tune with the human. Intellect the mind it encompasses everything you, and as an entrepreneur, you don't look at those things on a daily basis, even even my prior life of being in corporate America.

[00:30:53] Ryan: If we could take a 10th of what you've explained today and put it to, to practice in [00:31:00] what we did in corporate America, we would be so much better. I can tell you, I lived. To work. And all I did was phone calls. All day meetings never had five seconds to myself. I had ask permission to use the bathroom at times.

[00:31:14] Ryan: Cause I was going from meeting to meeting and I had almost 2000 1800 people reporting to me at one point. And how do I effectively manage people and also hit a number, which I could, I learned to thrive in that, but it wasn't the way I wanted to live. And that's why I left corporate America to do what I'm doing today is.

[00:31:33] Ryan: I'm a free thinker. And I know I do things well, and I know I do things horribly, so I have to be able to pass both those off, but realizing it and saying I can make change. Just didn't work in corporate America because I couldn't influence it. So now I have the ability to do it. I'm sure I've got bad habits.

[00:31:51] Ryan: I'm all for bad habits. And I know I gotta. But if I start paying attention to what's up here, what's in my heart and start listening to individuals like you. [00:32:00] Coaching is being a coach is not a four letter word it's coaches are great. And I'm not just saying because I do it's because I believe it.

[00:32:06] Ryan: And I have you on for a reason. It's because you have. You bring quality and you bring a vast amount of knowledge to the system and to the entrepreneurs to help 'em grow. And it's that's huge in my book. 

[00:32:19] Torrin: Yeah. So I think, really thanks for that. And it's a good summation and, go back to corporate America or, corporate Australia, corporate, UK, whatever.

[00:32:25] Torrin: It's, this comes back to the conditioning process of how these organization structures grow. and, there's a lot of discussion and I'm hearing a lot, I listen to a lot of podcasts and a lot of, high performance leaders who are understanding that this is definitely not the way to go, that you need to be more in tune with your people.

[00:32:42] Torrin: The fascinating thing I find is leadership, cuz leadership's at the core of all this and what I teach and it's about learning to lead yourself first. And I think what ends up happening is that a lot. Business owners who are growing a business, they get more people involved and, goes from two to five to 10.

[00:32:59] Torrin: And [00:33:00] next thing they've got an operation. That's got 50 odd people working in there and they are the leader of. And they're trying to figure out everybody else around and how to get them to thrive so they can make more money externally or whatever it is, but they haven't done the work to figure themselves out.

[00:33:15] Torrin: So until, I'm firm believer and this has proven many times over and until you start to learn to lead yourself and what's impacting you, you're never gonna have a chance to lead other people to what they wanna achieve in your world. Your exit out. Corporate America is probably a byproduct of that is that yes.

[00:33:32] Torrin: You didn't have good leaders around you that understood how to make you thrive so that you could get what you want outta your, your business journey, if you like, or your working journey. Yes. And then when you get leaders who understand how to make people, what makes people thrive? Then they're more attuned to nurturing that person to help them stay, and there's a great quote from Richard Branson who says about his team and people is that prepare them to leave your organization, but make them want to belong.

[00:33:59] Torrin: So they won't. [00:34:00] So that's a great, so in other words, you are up upscaling people to continually do better to service the business so that they will even move on and do their own thing. But the culture is so strong, the sense of belonging, which is one of the things that we all, is the most powerful thing within us is that sense of belonging to something or someone.

[00:34:17] Torrin: That if people will stay in, in a organization, no matter how bad is, if they feel like they belong and often people stay too long because of that, yes. They don't move on. So there was something else I was gonna say about that. I've forgotten now what it was, but just around that whole, in a game, understanding yourself at a deeper level.

[00:34:34] Torrin: Oh yeah. So leaders and managers, right? So we think managing people. Is is leadership but it's not. And again I will always quote the people that I've learned these things from. So Jim Collins, a famous, author studied of businesses. He talks a difference between leaders and managers being time keepers and leaders being clock makers.

[00:34:54] Torrin: Managers tell people where to go, what to do, how to do it and keep an eye on how long they're doing [00:35:00] it. And then try and shape me in. So in other words, timekeepers, whereas leaders will help someone become a clock maker so they can manage themselves to get the best out of themselves so that the leader actually doesn't have to have an impact so much on them on a day to day basis.

[00:35:13] Torrin: And essentially coaching is around the same thing. I think that, as I said before, is that if you can get. Quite, we're talking about smart people that are driving businesses. So it's not about intelligence. It's not about higher order thinking. It's more about understanding what's driving you emotionally, internally.

[00:35:28] Torrin: And what are the things that are creating your consistent behaviors, which. You've identified that this maybe isn't serving me cuz it's not taken me towards my vision and goal. And it's not always obvious because we are looking external into, another marketing funnel, put more, get more customers, more clients let's get the revenue up, but then you're delivering product or service.

[00:35:47] Torrin: Can't cope with that. So you're gonna plug that hole and then you go and get more people to come in and service this, but they don't know what they're doing and you can't lead them. And then that creates financial stress, so it's. It. So you're constantly plugging holes [00:36:00] big, 

[00:36:00] Ryan: big. Yeah, you're just plugging the holes in the dam and it just becomes more of a problem.

[00:36:04] Ryan: And you're never I call it drinking through a fire hose. you never, you're never able to end it. So it just keeps on going. And that's how my corporate life was, is I was consistently drinking through a fire hose and had to adapt every single day. And I lived to work. That's what it was.

[00:36:19] Ryan: So it. I would start between five 30 and six o'clock and I would go till eight o'clock at night, go home and work again. It just didn't work. So that's where I'm at today. I still work 12 hour days now, but it's at my pace and it's at what I need to do and depends on what needs to be done that day.

[00:36:36] Ryan: And then I can turn off at night and not have to worry about anything and enjoy my weekends. Yeah. So I have no problem every so often I'll do stuff on the weekends, but I don't have to, if I don't want to. No, one's no, one's breaking my arm to. Yep. 

[00:36:49] Torrin: Yeah, no, that's cool. And I think that, that really gets to a place of contentment and, maybe fulfillment, which is really what we are all trying to achieve.

[00:36:56] Ryan: And that's what I'm trying to get at. Yep. Yeah. Is fulfillment [00:37:00] and, bringing more value and I always say, I, I try to bring as much value as I can, and there's a side, there's a end result of that product as of me being happy and being able to help other people and oh, by the. I do make money.

[00:37:11] Ryan: So it is what it is and I enjoy what I do now. And is it stressful at times? Sure. It is. But guess what I get to learn on the journey and I fall and I get back up, but I know at a certain point on certain things, I'm just not the expert and I have to pass it off. I've got project managers now we've got a construction team.

[00:37:30] Ryan: I've evolved in those spaces because I thought before I needed to learn it. And I'm the type of guy that wants to learn hands. So I learned a lot of it. Now I can pass it along and makes me more of an effective leader than I am a manager, because I'm not gonna tell you what to do. I'm gonna help you get there.

[00:37:45] Ryan: But at, in the same time, you've gotta have the skill set to be able to understand that, Hey, this is my job. This is what I need to do. I'll train you, develop you, support you, but you still gotta do the work. And that's just how I look at life. And 

[00:37:58] Torrin: there'll be many business owners out there [00:38:00] listening to this who find themselves probably identifying with themselves that they, maybe they are a micromanager and they're trying to build a team of people, but they're overseeing every little thing that happens.

[00:38:10] Torrin: And again, that's not sustainable. You can only grow to a certain level if you wanna do that. And if you've got ambitions to scale past that level, whatever that level is for you. Based on your industry and where you're at. Again, you gotta look to your in the game. Why am I a micromanager? What's happened to my conditioning, who I am.

[00:38:27] Torrin: That's created me to be this way. And if it's not serving you, then you need to pay attention to, because if I ask a question, is it serving you? And the person says, yes, it's serving me. Probably the end of the conversation because you're not gonna listen to . That's true. Very true. And that, that also might be in denial, right?

[00:38:45] Torrin: They're saying, yes, it's serving me, but what their internal operating system is saying, it's not really red flag. It's not, you're just saying that. And that's what I'm saying is that until the pain of staying the same is not as much as the perceived pain of change, you'll never make the change.

[00:38:57] Torrin: And yeah, so encourage people, seek [00:39:00] help. And there's different aspects. As I said, what I'm talking about today is probably at a different level to, from a consulting tactical strategic, and there's, as I said, valuable people out there that can help you strategically map out the models and the methods, all that sort of stuff.

[00:39:13] Torrin: But what I'm talking about here is, this operating system that's driving you right now that you're not even aware of. If you wanna start paying attention to that, I can certainly help you with that. Or there was other people that out there that specifically work in this area. And it's the one that probably has the.

[00:39:29] Torrin: Impact at a sustainable level over a long period of time, because once you change your inner operating system or you evolve it, that stays with you and you evolve with it. And my experience is that when you start seeing the benefits of doing this, you go into it more, cuz you start seeing, okay. And what ends up happening is you build a life of actually working less and achieving more.

[00:39:50] Torrin: And one of the things that I often say to clients as a bit of a jolt is that when you value your time, more than you value your money, you'll end up making more. But what happens is most people value their [00:40:00] money more than their time, more than their time. Exactly. And that, that, that can rock people on their heels.

[00:40:05] Torrin: What do you mean is if, think about it, if you value your time more than you value your money, you'll end up building a business that will actually make more money, which is what you're trying to do now, but you're going about it the wrong way. 

[00:40:17] Ryan: Exactly. I exactly. All right. I'm I love this conversation.

[00:40:20] Ryan: We can keep on going, but I want to thank you for coming on tour and it's been great. And I will honestly wholeheartedly have you back for more, cuz we can go in more depth. I really enjoyed it. I know I got you up early your time. So that's good though. 

[00:40:36] Torrin: I can go and take the dog for a longation

[00:40:38] Torrin: no, that's fantastic. You go, I will, 

[00:40:41] Ryan: I will link your website and your contact information in the show notes. So don't worry about that. We'll share your information out to everybody. And thank you for coming on. 

[00:40:50] Torrin: Yeah. Cool. And look, if anybody's out there wants to have a conversation, no agenda reach out to me on LinkedIn.

[00:40:55] Torrin: Tomillo you'll find me active on there and yeah. With the advent of zoom and everything else, we can talk to [00:41:00] anybody around the world. Love to have a half an hour conversation now just to help people on a pathway. If there's a question that come out of this conversation, reach out, love to talk to good people.

[00:41:09] Ryan: Thank you, sir. I hope you have a great Wednesday and we'll be. Excellent. Got 

[00:41:14] Torrin: on your own. Thanks for that Uhhuh.