Chasing Financial Freedom

The Intersection of Branding and Investment: A Conversation with Michael Doyle

November 15, 2023 Ryan DeMent Season 5 Episode 46
Chasing Financial Freedom
The Intersection of Branding and Investment: A Conversation with Michael Doyle
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Have you ever wondered how a master brand strategist secures investments by harnessing the power of compelling brand story? Enter Michael Doyle, CEO of Brand Iron and Brand Champion, who offers invaluable insights into this art form. He underlines the importance of a well-defined niche along with a competitive offering. And to all you businesses out there, don't miss his advice on refining your message and adding that extra polish to your pitch decks.

Switching gears to real estate investing, we delve into the crucial element of risk mitigation. We uncover how crafting various scenarios from conservative to aggressive is essential to ensure investors can anticipate returns regardless of economic conditions. You'll hear about intriguing tools like buy downs that can reduce risk and make home purchases more affordable. 

Finally, let's venture into the unique blend of a for-profit and non-profit venture. We highlight the significance of innovative thinking and the value of guidance from seasoned advisors. It’s time for businesses to get unstuck, take a step back and gain a fresh perspective on their projects. We talk about the brilliance of having an arm's length transaction between entities and the need for a mentor or advisor who can take the project to the next level. Wrapping up the episode, Michael shares his experience about leveraging third-party help when starting a business and generously offers his contact information for those of you eager to collaborate with him. Tune in for an enlightening conversation that promises to be a game changer for your business or investment strategies!

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Speaker 1:

Trying to mint from Chase Freedom Podcast. I hope you guys are having a great day. Today On the podcast we have Michael Doyle. He's the CEO of Brand Iron and Brand Champion, A brand consultant and marketing firm that forges brands and drives revenue. He's raised over $5 billion for clients, helped 40 companies get acquired and 20 taking public. Michael, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2:

Hey, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

You're more than welcome. I know it's a little bit of a wait and you switched, so thank you for that. Before we get it, thank you. Before we get into the of what we're going to talk about, can you give the listeners a little bit about yourself and who you are?

Speaker 2:

Sure I've been creating and marketing my entire career. I've been doing brand iron now for about 20 years. I built up and sold a marketing agency primarily focused on the technology space and when I sold it I was a part of an IPO rollup and reported to Wall Street for a couple of years and that's when I learned a lot about Capri's Dex and kind of learning piece and so with Brand Iron now we work a lot of startup firms, but also private equity, venture capital, real estate technology companies, how they brand a position down, how we do that, how do we create some Dex, but also how do we position them to go to market and bribe revenue and get to their goals and objectives.

Speaker 1:

So with the I guess I just open up, just go deep with the market where we're at today. I mean it's crazy. You know they're crazy. What is your opinion or what are you seeing from your clients of out there looking to raise capital? What are they doing and kind of just taught? What do you see in the health of the economy?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, markets have been tough this year Me, soulcone Valley Bank and Sanitur Banks, your closure, rising interest rates between those two things that pretty much killed the venture capital markets and it made a lot of real estate deals really tough to do because of the huge increase in rates, and so it's been really tight. What we see? There's no lack for firms for looking for capital, but it's just taking them way longer than ever before, and it's more important now to have a really tight message, have a really tight team that can deliver that message and have a really good game plan of what you're going to be able to do with that capital and how and when you're going to be able to repay that and what are the type of returns you're going to deliver on that. It's more important now than never.

Speaker 1:

It's very competitive In base. I understand it all too well. It seems to let's dive into another hole and we'll go down it. I know you've reviewed one of our decks in the past. You gave feedback. I was very thankful for it and we did since then, and then three weeks ago we were able to finally get our nonprofit approved, which will have another layer of, as I say, for us to raise capital. What are some typical client files that you guys typically work with in your companies?

Speaker 2:

I see that we work with three different types of clients we work with, the first one being some startups. But they've got to have a little capital so they can invest, and not only the brand, but you've got to have a good solid deck, you've got to have a good solid website too. These are for sake of people, do is jump on while I do some research about you. So on some startups. The second was what we call those SMBs, our small, medium-sized businesses that are trying to raise capital, to get that new capital, to get that next plateau, whether $5 million want to get to $25, $25 want to get to $50, $50 million want to get to $100, $100 to $200. Another one we serve is kind of like enterprise, but those businesses that are over $200 million, whether it be in assets or revenue or re-evaluable, so it could be a private equity firm, a real estate development firm, a separate firm. So we play within those three specific spaces.

Speaker 1:

So if you have a company and maybe a service that potentially is unique or has a niche, would you say this environment is use-ive to come out to really get a deck put together and go out and raise capital. Or would you say, hone your skills, sharping your niche, and back to the market.

Speaker 2:

I see, most of the time I'd say 90, 95% of the time I don't think that most businesses have a really good what I call brand story as well as a rock solid financial story, and so they definitely should be using this time to get their story together, really kind of plot out what that brand story and financial stories want to be, so that if you get in front of a potential investor, you're not wasting that opportunity right. But I also think that there's people doing some deals. I mean all of the hands-hold terms have gotten funding. There's some real estate deals I've known have gotten funding. So it's not like it's not a bamblin. What we're really seeing is the ones that are really getting funding are really have their act together. They have a site, a rock solid story. They really have a solid financial story. They have a very well-defined niche, like you were mentioning. They know what that is, they know how and why. They're better than the competition. They have a really good investment opportunity and they're producing some very attractive results.

Speaker 2:

You're not offering something in the mid-teens or above. You're really not competitive, and so most a lot of firms, a lot of groups, a lot of deals just don't pencil out at that. So that eliminates quite a few opportunities as well. So I think it's there and I think it's a great time. There's money there, there's monies out there. I think it's a great time to hone your message and get your deck together and really practice your presentation, to have a downed rock solid. But I think it's there. You just need to make sure you're ready to go when you get in front of that investor, that you're telling a great story. And I also think that you know calculation just being. You know, or this last week, that jobs come down and then interest rates might be stopped. You know dicing and interest rates just coming in may be going back down again and if that's the case, you better have your story together.

Speaker 1:

So, because you know those are going to come fast and furious, the unfortunate thing with interest rates, since I'm so sensitive to them, is, as long as we're sitting on trillions of dollars of debt and we can't raise enough money for that 10-year sorry the Treasury we're struggling. And then today I'm looking at the 10-year as I'm on my computer and we're doing this. I mean, it's dips already.

Speaker 1:

And we're going back up again. So I mean, there's so many things that go and play, and I love what you said about refining and honing your message and I really think that is in any market we struggle with. So from your perspective, you know, talking to a bunch of small business owners, entrepreneurs, we have people that are working to find that they jump over that cubicle and become a, you know, full-time business owner, but they don't know how to hone that craft. You know that, did you, believe me? You saw my deck it's.

Speaker 1:

I think I put out another eight or 10 versions of it. I think it could be better. We still struggle in some places. But how do we? I guess the best way and I'm just trying to talk from my personal experience and trying to get it out to everybody is, if you don't put it out there and get feedback, how are you supposed to improve? But then when you team up with somebody like you and you're in your business, you guys take it to a whole other level and do those individuals really get started and then start moving towards that, Because somewhere you've got to get your message out there. You can't just go on wishing and wishing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was talking to a company that's got a SaaS product this last week and they are trying to, you know, put together Deccan Race Capital and that's just a deck. And I saw exactly why because they have no story, nothing's compelling, nothing's polished. I mean that doesn't look good. There's zero financial story about knowing the company and what they're going to be able to do and as well as what the investment looks like and how they're going to be able to perform and deliver on the dollars that they raise. And so I tell people is to start to put together a deck.

Speaker 2:

Understand the differentiators, understand your value points, understand your value proposition. Make sure you're understanding how and why you're better than anybody else in your particular space. How do you package that? How do you develop that? How do you effectively communicate it? How do you put it into a story? How do you put it into a message that is engaging, it's compelling, it's you know, it's exalted about knowing the company is concerned who you are, what you do, how and why you're better. You know why makes sense, why there's nothing else like it in the marketplace and if you are just like everybody else, how is either your returns on the investment better or it's an income producing model or it's got great tax advantages. You've got to figure out what are these value points that really do separate you and your company and the investment opportunity apart for everything else out there. And I would say most companies we see don't understand those value points and the value proposition and how and why this makes sense.

Speaker 1:

So can we go back one step and let's say we're a smart up or maybe it's past concept. We have operations, we've raised a few dollars, but we don't really have any financials to share. So how do we stand out from the crowd when we're in that space? And if you want to, I mean, I know, I mean this is probably something that's off the radar is I think of. When I first started in the real estate space, people thought I was crazy. I was going into cities and streets and building houses in neighborhoods that were pretty much depressed and they didn't believe that it could happen. So I mean, and to say the least, you can get really beat down and having somebody like you in their corner to help them with that would be huge. But how does and really get out there to tell their story if they're at that phase?

Speaker 2:

Well, first, you asked a couple of questions there, right? So let me go back and answer the first one. So the first one we always see is the financial projections. So I always tell people you've got to have a performer. Even though you may be a startup or me, it'd be a concept. You've got to be able to develop a performer. And I'll take a step back.

Speaker 2:

What that means is it's a financial projection over the next 12, 24, 36 months, maybe up to five years, and it's much like a research paper where you're putting together a baseline and saying you know what? We think. We're going to be able to get so many customers at so many dollars per month or so many traction transactions per year. We're going to be able to produce X dollars with the EBITDA, or a profit of X percentage, and we're going to be able to spin off a return for investors, let's say, of 15% IRR, with ongoing cash flow or distributions and maybe a capex at the event, after so many months or so many years, and this is the total return once the look like. And you've got to be able to justify that because investors, especially today, want to know is this believable, can you really do this, or are you guys, like 95% of the business out there, you know, just giant, hot, pick, growth and curve, with no justification for how it get there and what that, how you're going to be able to really pull that off, and so most of them are highly skeptical. So how do you build? Build worry, but do the research to support your financial projections and tell them why and how this is going to become reality.

Speaker 2:

So, as we do, we put together and I like to put together several different scenarios a conservative, a moderate and an aggressive scenario. Instead of every single one of them having an aggressive scenario, back it off and do a moderate and a conservative scenario. So, even out of conservative scenario, the investors getting their money back, they're getting a decent return on their investment, but it makes sound financial sense from an investment standpoint and it makes sound financial sense from a business perspective, and these things are all aligned and you can sell this content and say this actually makes sense because you've done justification on how and why you're going to be able to do this. And so don't just come out of the water and say, yeah, we're going to do this giant, we're going to become a unicorn in 12 months when every investor knows that's one.

Speaker 2:

Half of 1% is able to do that. I mean, that's reality. So paint a realistic picture and supplement it with research and, because it's a hypothesis that you've got to be able to put solid, rock solid guesses with you know behind it that you can really sell and support and justify and this makes total sense to an investor. That's number one. Go ahead, ryan.

Speaker 1:

No, I. Those are all great points and it's things that I know I've struggled with. I've talked to other entrepreneurs that have struggled with that. The let's just real estate sense that's my background and that's what I know is the real estate fluctuates on daily. I mean, cause that's truly what it is and with rates where they're at before we had this nice little stair step of rates going up. I was offering a single to returns to investors. Now I'm 12, 14% to investors and I think at times they expect more than that. And, like you said earlier, it has to pencil out. Where's one, as a business owner, an entrepreneur, startup, really get down to the nitty gritty and say, okay, this is going to pencil out yes or no, but then how do you know what that's going to look like if we change on a daily basis? I mean, cause that's really the wild, wild right now in real estate.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, uncertainty is what's causing you know the most to be so tight, right? No one knows which way interest rates are going to go. Are they going to go up or are they going to go down? Same thing with monetary policy and the tightening of the money availability right. And so you've got to pay, and that's why it's more important now than ever.

Speaker 2:

You don't know. No one I didn't take knows, and if they do say they know, they're lying. But no one knows what the certain circumstances are. So you've got to be able to put together a that makes sense, whether the interest rates go up or they go down and why. You've got risk adjustments and risk mitigation, regardless of what happens within the markets. And they want to see that you've done your homework and this can work. If it goes up, another couple of points from real estate. You know it goes down a couple of points and you know you've got to be able to pay in a scenario that you can survive, you can thrive, no matter whether that rates go up or rates go down. And I think I don't think very few I know very few companies actually paint a scenario of why and how this makes sense, regardless of what the economic conditions look like.

Speaker 1:

It's tough to say, at least as you're saying all that. I'm running the scenarios through my mind of everything that we're working on right now, because we're building another 14 properties and we've got two up, third ones going up and I would tell you the challenge that we see from people is a little bit the from the home buyers end user is interest rate. But once you have some tools that you can utilize, don't select new home. You know new holders across the nation. Lenard KB homes told brothers they're all doing buy downs, they're all doing a, either a three to one buy down or a 30 year fixed buy down, whatever the case is, to where it's making the home purchase affordable. Something to that extent and I'm diving back in is how do we take that information, put it towards our decks and then be able to share that with our potential investors as a one risk mitigation? But to it's a cell.

Speaker 1:

It's a tool that most are not using. If you go look at the resale market, no one's using it, no one's talking about it, even though they have the option to do it. Realtors, unfortunately, are just not highly Withusing it and the ones that I talked to him like I give him that that scenario and they're like. Well, that made a sense. Instead of lowering that price on that house 10, 15, 20 thousand why don't you offer them a buy down for six or seven thousand bucks? You save yourself 12 to 13 thousand dollars.

Speaker 2:

Sure.

Speaker 2:

Well, and that's what's so important these days is how do you innovate us right, how do you put together what like a buy down program, like you're talking about, or how about a some sort of model that watch weights are various depending on what's going on with the marketplace at the interest rates?

Speaker 2:

And how do you think outside of the box to protect the investors or protect your investment and deliver returns that are acceptable in these challenging markets and interest rates, and people don't are very. I'll turn it to you as well, and that's incredibly important today, incredibly important, because you know how it is. You get a deck, you flip through it, you know, say that most investors pass in 90 to 95 percent of the opportunities. I'd say it's probably 95 to 99 percent right now and there's one percent of them that actually get looked at or get considered today. And in order to be one of those, you've got to provide innovative programs or innovative buy down options or innovative, you know, incentives, that really kind of menu on your opportunity stand out and may need some help on. What does that innovative look or innovative product or innovative promotion want to look like?

Speaker 1:

That is probably the understatement of the year. I mean it truly is. I mean believe, like I said earlier, you've looked at our deck. It's gone through iterations, it still needs more love and and we're not quite at that point. But at some point I'd love to come back to you and say here it is and then figure out how we can work together and make it even better. I'm still trying to figure out how to integrate nonprofit with profit and Take the as possible.

Speaker 2:

It's like they, it's like the. You know the call the. I'm going to Mental what's what's the terminology I'm looking for when the government and private world collide together and they work on projects together. And so that's kind of where you're coming from is how do we combine a profit and a nonprofit together to be able to produce results? You know all the time, but how do you package that, how to communicate that, and how do the two worlds don't collide but they work in tandem so they can produce outcomes that are desirable from a nonprofit, but outcomes that are desirable for the for profit as well too. And so how do you put all that together is the billion dollar question, and that takes some innovation and brainstorming on how would this look like and what makes sense and how do we get this so plays out of all scenarios.

Speaker 1:

And that's what we're trying to do. Before I can come to somebody like yourself, I need to have some ideas that could work the around. Legality, because there needs to be an arm length transaction between the two entities. We've gone through all those hurdles and now we're actually looking at Acquisitions through the nonprofit and then having true vests, which is our for profit to be a developer and then get a fee, and there's some ideas behind that. But we're trying to work that through.

Speaker 1:

So I hate making it about me. So I want to come back around, because I it's, this is about you. So I mean, have an entity or somebody coming to you in that type of situation. What would be like three nuggets that they could take away from our conversation and be able to start doing before they come to you, to where they're better prepared. But also, I truly think this and I this way about myself to understand your business better but in more depth. I don't think a lot of people do that today. It's just drive by the 30,000 foot level and it's like, no, you've got to get in the weeds on some of this.

Speaker 2:

Yep. Well, the first I'd say to you, ryan, is that I wouldn't wait to try to have it polished before you call and get some help. And I tell people all the time and the reason reason being is I've worked on hundreds of decks for profits, nonprofits, private equity, venture capital, real estate, technology, you name it consumer, you know, I've seen it so many different things over the years, and so I tell people it does not have to be perfect before you call and get some help. That's why you call and get some help is because they probably have seen all different types of scenarios, seen all different type of packaging, and so get some help. Worlds.

Speaker 2:

You may never get unstuck if you will.

Speaker 2:

And so that's number one is calling get some help.

Speaker 2:

Number two is I tell people all the time is people are so close to what they do they can't see the forest through the trees, and so a lot of times you need to get some help to be able to have a totally different perspective or see it from a different light that allows to either tell a better story or package it in a different way or put together an innovative new idea that you may never thought of.

Speaker 2:

And I tell people all the time. Entrepreneurs are the worst, overthink things so much and sometimes I can come in and I can take what you've done or accompany like yourself, brian and say you know what, what if we tweeted this or did this or packaged this way or offered this incentive or did this type of thing here? And there's a lot of really smart advisors out there that have gotten years and years of experience and done a ton of deals, that don't hesitate to reach out and get a whether it be a mentor and an advisor to help you and get you unstuck or tell a better story or make it more compelling, or help you on understand and identify what are the differentiators and the value points that really make a compelling value proposition to help take this thing to the next level.

Speaker 1:

I like that, but I think we're not. I'm not trying to get it perfect, by all means. I'm trying to understand the overlay, how they can integrate and come together. I'm not sure how that's going to play out and I think by it being on the shelf for almost 24 months, as in the nonprofit, and finally getting approved. It's shame on me that I wasn't working on it in the background. It just wasn't, it wasn't a burner. Yeah, I mean that's where we're at. I've got some ideas and we're flushing them out, but I think, with that being said, let's say we get past that and we're coming to you.

Speaker 1:

I mean, what would be some steps? We don't have to use mine. I just want to. I want to talk generalities. I don't want to talk. I don't want to talk about my stuff. Yeah, I know other entrepreneurs that are in the same boat, that they're struggling, that they need to be able to find somebody that can help them with this piece. I mean kind of kind of out know if came someone comes to you. What would that process look like and how? It would be like the chess game. It's really chess. It's like finding the right pieces, putting them together and playing that long-term game. What are expectations from you? Know, I to you, and then what do we do? As we're going back and forth, we're finding this deck.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So the first thing I'm going to try to do is understand multiple layers, right? So the first one is what's the end desired outcome? So, two, three, four, five years from now, what are you trying to get to and what does that want to look like? The next thing I want to understand is do you have that performance? Do you understand what the financial goals, objectives are? What are the milestones along the way to be able to help you get there?

Speaker 2:

And I would say probably three quarters of the companies that come to us don't understand necessarily all of those either have a performer or understand all the milestones along the way to get there, and so we kind of help craft that together, because most people haven't either done it themselves or don't really have a good idea how to think through that kind of map it all out and align it so it works. The other thing I would say is you know what I look at normally the thought process or the beginning framework of the business plan or the deck that you've got, and I actually, before we ever sit down, I have the clients filled a questionnaire and I spend three, four, five days and I probably spend anywhere from eight to 10 to 12 to 15 hours of thinking and prep work to try to really not to use the time that we're working together to understand the business, make sure I really understand it, understand the bigger picture, goals, objectives, kind of get a mind. What are the milestones along the way. But then I really want to say is what's missing here? What are the missing pieces? Whether it be the story, whether the financial story, whether it be the differentiators, the value proposition, whether it be the packaging of the plant, that specific programs or the products, what's missing here? You know, you know we had all, but you just kind of read it all and packaged it and come up with this and that I go.

Speaker 2:

Well, a lot of you've got the majority of it. You just need a different perspective to be able to help you identify what's the missing pieces? How do we put it in a what I call a story framework that makes sense? How do we effectively communicate that in nice, tight and compelling fashion that's clear and concise. But then also, how do we put together that last 15, 20%? That's going to make 100% of the difference.

Speaker 2:

So a lot of clients, it's not just like a wave of magic wand and well, a lot, it's a million times better. I would say 90% of the time. They have the majority of the pieces, but they need the last 10, 15, 20% put together, framed, put it into a package, effectively communicated. That's going to make 100% of the difference and that's really what we see all the time, and there are some that they're only halfway there and they need my help to be able to say here's all the things you need to do.

Speaker 2:

This may take you 30, 60, 90 days to be able to put all these things together and then we can reconvene and the first session, part one, the second session would be. Part two could be 60 days from now. While they're building out their performance, while they're building out what the incentives are, while they're finishing up their product or their product development, or buying or buying some opportunities, and so all these different scenarios, and our job is how do we help find those missing pieces, help people understand, you know on what those are, and then how do we take that, get them over the finish line and say, voila, we've got something that's a million times better. And now it really tells a compelling story. It's going to make your job a million times easier raising money.

Speaker 1:

And you, you've done something there that I think is near and dear and I understand it is. You're not emotionally attached to it like the entrepreneur is, so you're going to see things and unpack things that are going to be from a different you know or a viewpoint, and it's invaluable. I mean, that's just the amount of information that you shared with me. The time that you reviewed my deck was huge, to where it's evolved and I'm sure there's there's air. But to have that feedback and then have somebody like yourself give it to an index myself or another entrepreneur you grow from it and you only have the best interest for our entity, for the deck, whatever we're working on and I think as a small business owner or entrepreneur, I've struggled with that because it becomes so personal, because I'm entrenched with it and we struggle with it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I'd be the bearer of reality. And so a lot of times I have to tell people that their baby's ugly, you know, okay.

Speaker 1:

It is, I mean good feedback, and one of that things was you know, there's some stuff in here. I get it.

Speaker 2:

I mean it's life, yeah, this life.

Speaker 2:

But I'd rather be real and tell them what are the missing pieces or what doesn't make sense, or what do we got to tweak and modify so that we can take this thing and put it in a totally different light.

Speaker 2:

So, instead of being ugly, one of the things I always ask is what does anticipate the questions? If we could anticipate the four, five, six, 10 questions and one investor's going to want to look for and know what those things are, and so we can change this thing that may have what they call in the deal world or private equity world, venture capital world, has hair on it. So how do we understand what are the ugly points of this baby? And so how can we shed some light on them or put them in a positive light or address their concerns right out of hate, so they're not concerned and say I know you would think that this would be a concern, but let me tell you why it's really not or why it's really an opportunity, and so you can address these things, change the view of this thing, and this makes sense all of a sudden.

Speaker 1:

And it's surrounding yourself with the right people to help you, that have the skill sets, that you don't have to get stuff done, and that's that. That's magic in all this. I mean, that is that.

Speaker 2:

It really is, and having that different perspective that you get and take a step back, see it from how it really is, or what investors are going to want to be thinking when they look at this, really sheds a whole different light on it and allows us to be able to be able to say is how do we address these things, how do we feel these missing holes? Or how do we better package it and tell better story. That's going to be more compelling and get people to respond and engage.

Speaker 1:

And that's all we're looking for. We're going to make sure that all happens, put it together in a deck and in booth, all the money comes in. That's your conversation, because it's not magic, it's a work. But as we get this up, what would be one thing if we end we're ending the conversation right now. What's one thing you'd want to share with the audience for us to be better at putting decks together or working with an entity like yours?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, don't be afraid to get up. I think number one is practice makes perfect. Like you said earlier, ryan, it doesn't have to be perfect, but you used to get put together in front of what quote unquote like a prince in the family round to get their feedback. Hopefully they're going to be honest with you and tell you that your baby's lovely and get you some good, valuable feedback where you could tweak it and make changes.

Speaker 2:

Second one is don't be afraid to reach out and get some third party help as well too. We offer like a free 20-minute console. That's kind of like what you and I did. So don't be afraid to get that, reach out and get some help, like we do that all the time. I can't tell you how many times we give advice and then 30, 60, 90, 120 days later they come back and say we did all these things, we thought we could do it ourselves, and now we're at the point that we need some more advanced help and we're ready to get going. And whether that happens or not doesn't matter. What matters is take advantage of it, get some help, get some advice, clean it up, polish it, get some practice in it and see what you can't do. That's what we need to do?

Speaker 1:

I mean, that's that. So I'm about there too, so don't worry. I'll be coming Best place for people to reach out and speak to you and potentially work with you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you go to brandirenet the website or you can look me up online on LinkedIn at mygoldstoyle.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I will make sure we put those links in the show notes so people can get ahold of you. Sir, thank you for coming on Wonderful conversation. What you're doing is invaluable, but too, there's so much to learn what you guys provide. But also you guys put out some pretty slick decks. I've seen a lot of your decks and those are eye catchers.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity to be with you today and thank you for the compliment. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

You're more than welcome. Have a good day.

Speaker 2:

Hey, thank you so much.

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